=============================================================================== Board: NEWS BB Subject: N.IRELAND Posted: June 06,1995 22:46:49 To: ALL From: REVOLUTIONSOLUTION British are abandoning the six million freedom loving capitalists of Hong Kong to the communist butchers of Tiananmen come July 1, 1997. Do the British believe that the democratic government of Ireland is WORSE than the Chinese Communist Party? If the British can sell-out six million of their "subjects" to brutal dictators, then why are they so reluctant to do the right thing viz Ireland and make the country whole again like it was before the British conquered it? Bulletin ID: EZA950606224649CHHL71A =============================================================================== Board: NEWS BB Subject: N.IRELAND Posted: June 07,1995 15:44:36 To: WILLIAM MURPHY (PYBP12A) From: REVOLUTIONSOLUTION America is based on the ideas of the Declaration of Independence which clearly states that whenever ANY government becomes oppressive of the Right of the People to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish that government and create a new one. Clearly the People of Hong Kong will lose the rights they now have under the somewhat benign British colonialists when the communists take over. A Declaration of Independence NOW will render all treaties null and void and if China moves against Hong Kong it will have to contend with the Armed Forces of the United States. There are many, many Americans now living in Hong Kong, many more than ever lived in Grenada. Our rescue of the Americansin Grenada and the subsequent liberation of that island served as the first big shot in the final defeat of the Soviets and the end of that part of the cold war. President Reagan and our military were heros in Grenada and we continued this success by giving decisive aid to freedom fighters around the world, from Nicaragua to Afghanistan. Standing up to the Chinese Communists now is as important as standing up to the Soviet Communists had been. A world in peace cannot come into being when there are still governments that oppress the People, whether in China or Ireland. Bulletin ID: EZA950607154436CHHL71APYBP12A =============================================================================== Board: NEWS BB Subject: N.IRELAND Posted: June 07,1995 19:17:45 To: REVOLUTIONSOLUTION From: TOM MCCALDEN (KHKF24A) One reason, sir, is that the United Kingodom is a unitatry politicaL STRUCTURE and the citizens in NIreland are part and parcel of the UK. Thus, the civil war which would erupt in the irish part of the UK (NIreland) could not be contained in ireland and would spill over into the cities of glasgow, londonm, birningham, and liverpool to name but a few! Bulletin ID: EZA950607191745KHKF24ACHHL71A =============================================================================== Board: NEWS BB Subject: N.IRELAND Posted: June 07,1995 10:00:23 To: REVOLUTIONSOLUTION From: WILLIAM MURPHY (PYBP12A) Rick, Excellent point. The British will withdraw from Hong Kong because if they don't, Mainland China will take it back. China is no Argentina, and her military forces would crush any British attempt to hold on to Hong Kong. The British, in an attempt to save face, claim they are giving Hong Kong back because of a treaty they signed with Chinese feudal lords 100 years ago. They continue to hold "Northern" Ireland because they know that Ireland could never challenge Britain's military/economic power. China, on the other hand, has the military/economic power to challenge Britain. Bill Bulletin ID: EZA950607100023PYBP12ACHHL71A =============================================================================== Board: NEWS BB Subject: N.IRELAND Posted: June 07,1995 15:27:02 To: JIM RILEY (PWMK49A) From: REVOLUTIONSOLUTION Northern Ireland may be 13 miles from Britain, but it physically touches the Republic. Its six counties were over-run after the original conquest by economic refugees from Scotland. (The Scotch-Irish) Because of this and several centuries of breeding they now make a clear majority of the population with a clear economic interest in remaining a part of Britain. The descendants of the lawful inhabitants are now, and have always been, relegated to second class status, and choose not tftencourage their oppressors by participating in the political process. Hong Kong and Northern Ireland have served the same purpose to the British ruling class: a cash cow and source of power and prestige, just like the 13 American colonies. We had the God-given RIGHT to declare our independence and nothing but good flowed from that event. (Good for us and the rest of the world, anyway, but the British are still having cows over it.) And as Ronald Reagan, as good an American-Scotch-Irishman as they come, repeatedly said: the Panama Canal is ours. We bought it, paid for it and built it. Bulletin ID: EZA950607152702CHHL71APWMK49A =============================================================================== Board: NEWS BB Subject: N.IRELAND Posted: June 07,1995 11:51:40 To: REVOLUTIONSOLUTION From: W J KENNEY (TDMN43A) ....The Brits should go to war with China over Hong Kong!. Are you sure ????? I say keep Hong Kong and give O'hare to China! wjk Bulletin ID: EZA950607115140TDMN43ACHHL71A =============================================================================== Board: NEWS BB Subject: N.IRELAND Posted: June 07,1995 13:50:28 To: ziCK GOMBAS (CHHL71A) From: JIM RILEY (PWMK49A) Rick, The people of Ireland have been citizens of the United Kingdom since the early 1800s, with representation in Parliament. This continues in Northern Ireland to this day. The greater part of the people of Northern Ireland prefer to remain within the United Kingdom. This is recognized by international treaty signed by the democratically elected governments of both the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. Northern Ireland is 13 miles from Britain, with strong economic, historical, and political ties. To force the people of Northern Ireland out of the United Kingdom against their will isiso different than for the US to force Arizona out of the Union, and is without moral justification. Hong Kong has never been anything but a colony and entrepot to China, thousands of miles from Britain. The people have never been integrated into the British political system, and have a separate history. Hanging onto Hong Kong would be the equivalent of the US hanging onto the Panama Canal Zone, and without moral justification. Jim Bulletin ID: EZA950607135028PWMK49ACHHL71A =============================================================================== Board: NEWS BB Subject: N.IRELAND Posted: June 08,1995 15:51:14 To: REVOLUTIONSOLUTION From: W J KENNEY (TDMN43A) Rick: Hong Kong is a COMPANY more than a COUNTRY! I go ther often and I doubt if the Chinese Govt. will make any drastic changes. They need its "window to commerce" to badly. wjk Bulletin ID: EZA950608155114TDMN43ACHHL71A =============================================================================== Board: NEWS BB Subject: N.IRELAND Posted: June 11,1995 00:29:53 To: REVOLUTIONSOLUTION From: DEBORAH SCANNELL (YTRA74A) One big difference between Hong Kong and Northern Ireland is that Ireland did not "lease" six of her counties to the English. The English must leave H.K. or their words will have an even hollower ring then they do now. Why would China drastically change H.K.? It is a huge success in terms of revenue making isn't it? Debbie Bulletin ID: EZA950611002953YTRA74ACHHL71A =============================================================================== Board: NEWS BB Subject: N.IRELAND Posted: June 12,1995 22:31:04 To: DEBORAH SCANNELL (YTRA74A) From: REVOLUTIONSOLUTION And guess what the Chinese communists will do with all that extra H.K. revenue: They will modernize their already huge armed forces and WE will end up in an arms race during the next century that will exceed in expense the arms race of this century with the Russian communists. That's why George Clinton and Bill Bush, and their Wall Street friends,are so cozy with the butchers of Tiananmen. Not to mention the big profits to be made by British banks in financing this nightmare. >>> And don't forget: when the communists took over China in '49they reneged on $billions in obligations to Western governments and investors. Never paid a cent and have no intention to do so. Yet we line up to lend them money that could be of better use here. If the current Chinese government can ignore the contracts and treaties entered by the prior governments why should Britain be held to a different standard? In 1776 We the People, (actually just a third of us) kicked Britain out. NOW Hong Kong and the Northern part of Ireland shouldldo the same. Bulletin ID: EZA950612223104CHHL71AYTRA74A =============================================================================== Board: NEWS BB Subject: N.IRELAND Posted: June 13,1995 14:03:16 To: REVOLUTIONSOLUTION From: W J KENNEY (TDMN43A) Rick: You are losing me...What is your recommendation for Hong Kong? wjk Bulletin ID: EZA950613140316TDMN43ACHHL71A =============================================================================== Board: NEWS BB Subject: N.IRELAND Posted: June 13,1995 07:29:26 To: REVOLUTIONSOLUTION From: GERALD O'HARE (KXFW40C) Well Said! Bulletin ID: EZA950613072926KXFW40CCHHL71A =============================================================================== Board: NEWS BB Subject: N.IRELAND Posted: June 14,1995 14:51:16 To: REVOLUTIONSOLUTION From: JIM RILEY (PWMK49A) Rick, In 1776, the issue was taxation without representation. Members of Parliament such as Pitt and Burke argued the case for the American colonies, suggesting that Americans should either be granted votes in Parliament or be not taxed by it. Since the early 1800s, Ireland, and now Northern Ireland have been represented in Parliament. A unitary tax system is used throughout the United Kingdom, and social welfare benefits are applied equally throughout. In addition, America was isolated from Britain. In good weather, it was a month long journey. In winter, longer if you were not shipwrecked. Northern Ireland is so close to Scotland that signal fires can be used for communication. Jim Bulletin ID: EZA950614145116PWMK49ACHHL71A =============================================================================== Board: NEWS BB Subject: N.IRELAND Posted: June 18,1995 10:21:21 To: REVOLUTIONSOLUTION From: SEAN GANNON (JTRG29A) Rick, Wow, I had not thought of it. Pretty scary thought to me. Hey I liked the way you did the Pres names. Point well taken! Sean Bulletin ID: EZA950618102121JTRG29ACHHL71A =============================================================================== Board: NEWS BB Subject: N.IRELAND Posted: June 20,1995 15:48:49 To: REVOLUTIONSOLUTION From: MELVIN BERNIER (XMHJ82A) now CLINTON is negotiating; reported according to wahington press with officals of northern ireland and english officals to MOVE AS MANY AS 450 FACTORIES TO NORTHEN IRELAND; SO FAR 40 PLANTS HAVE AGREED TO MOVE OUT OF THIS COUNTRY pratt whitney moving plants from connecicut to taiwan; since mcdonald douglas and boeing have facilities in se asia ; it makes sense for those 2 airplane makers to have part sources ( close to their asembly lines---- EVEN IF IT MEANS JOB LOSSES HERE AND THE DOWNWARD DRIFT OF OUR ECONOMY !!!!! This move to ireland is designed reportedly to get peace and stability in ireland------- but to ---- with this country also reported that if japan and the united states come to an agreement the european community will take both japan and the united states to the world trade orginization---REASON STATED SINCE WE ARE MEMBERS OF WTO/ GATT WE GAVE UP OUR RIGHT WITH UNI-LATERAL NEGOTIATIONS WITH ANY COUNTRY !!!! Bulletin ID: EZA950620154849XMHJ82ACHHL71A =============================================================================== Board: NEWS BB Subject: N.IRELAND Posted: June 21,1995 23:36:44 To: TOM MCCALDEN (KHKF24A) From: REVOLUTIONSOLUTION More than a million People who were British AND American decided to be just American with their Declaration of Independence of 1776. Only good came from this event. Their national identity became an American one, dropping things British for a higher purpose. No American would want to have a national allegiance to a power other than America so why would the Irish want to be Brit? The British are in Ireland because they have always had guns and a willingness to use them to invade and occupy many formerly soverign Peoples. (Only on April 19 1775 did the Britain meet someone who also had guns and a willingness to use them, and America was born!) America was founded on the idea of using violence to achieve political aims. They stated that right in the Declaration of Independence. Tom, don't you think the Irish ALSO have this "self-evident" right or do you side with the British over America too? And only a third of America's 3 million population actually supported Independence, yet here we are. Bulletin ID: EZA950621233644CHHL71AKHKF24A =============================================================================== Board: NEWS BB Subject: N.IRELAND Posted: June 22,1995 16:09:28 To: REVOLUTIONSOLUTION From: W J KENNEY (TDMN43A) Rick: Following your train of thought...Why would an American want to continue being Irish ????? Bulletin ID: EZA950622160928TDMN43ACHHL71A =============================================================================== Board: NEWS BB Subject: N.IRELAND Posted: June 23,1995 21:07:15 To: REVOLUTIONSOLUTION From: JIM RILEY (PWMK49A) Rick, America declared its indpendence because Britain failed to afford its people full British citizenship. Read the Declaration of Independence again. The grievance again and again was that Americans were treated in a non-British manner. British MPs like Pitt and Burke agreed that unless Americans were given representation in Parliament, that taxes could not be imposed on them. Britain was 2 or more months round-trip from America, so communication was difficult - and Britain could not be responsive. Northern Ireland has full representation in Parliament. Its residents share the same taxation and social benefits of all British citizens. Northern Ireland is 13 miles from Britain. It is a short hop by air from the capital. The last time the people of Northern Ireland voted on the issue, less than 2% said that they wanted to be alienated from Britain. Jim ps Was it "OK" to drive Thomas A. Edison's great-grandfather from New Jersey? Was this only good? Bulletin ID: EZA950623210715PWMK49ACHHL71A =============================================================================== Board: NEWS BB Subject: N.IRELAND Posted: June 23,1995 22:09:55 To: REVOLUTIONSOLUTION From: TOM MCCALDEN (KHKF24A) The republican irish decided to LEAVE the UK! The northern "unionists" objected and decided to stay! Thus, being irish and british is considered a GOOD thing by more than 1 million people who inhabit the small island of ireland. This is their right and nethir you, the british government, the ira or anyone else can take that away! Bulletin ID: EZA950623220955KHKF24ACHHL71A =============================================================================== Board: NEWS BB Subject: N.IRELAND Posted: June 23,1995 19:24:57 To: REVOLUTIONSOLUTION From: CHARLES GILPIN (FDGR26A) We people in the Bay Area wish they had kept all of their Chinese gang members in Hongkong. Unfortunately for us they represent the largest organized crime group on the West Coast and also the most deadly and they are arriving in increasing numbers. Bulletin ID: EZA950623192457FDGR26ACHHL71A